Longtime GOP strategist Stuart Stevens — who was the chief strategist for Mitt Romney’s 2012 presidential campaign, and now is a member of the Lincoln Project — joins us for a fascinating discussion about his new book, “It Was All a Lie: How the Republican Party Became Donald Trump.”

Stevens doesn’t hold back with his assessment of both Donald Trump (“I’m very comfortable calling Donald Trump a traitor because he’s actively trying to destroy America”) and the Republican party (“courage is the exception and cowardice is the norm”). Stevens talks about COVID (“If Hillary Clinton were president today, tens of thousands more Americans would be alive”), and his concerns about the state of the conservative movement under Trump, calling them “a lost generation of conservatives” that we may just have to write off. It was such an interesting, and more than a little sobering, discussion. I know you are going to enjoy this one, I think it’s one of our best.

This is a half-hour excerpt of our show. To hear the entire interview with Stuart Stevens, and to browse our entire two-year library of shows, please consider subscribing over at Patreon, thanks.